the people's republic of sole

I've been exposed to a few people recently who have more or less gotten me thinking about the concept of "fat-phobia" -- in so many words, a generalized bigotry against fat people (a la homophobia). The idea is that (western) society is stridently fat-phobic, and systematically discriminates against larger people while favoring skinnier people. Those who try and sound the alarm on fat-phobia are generally women, because women, as we all know, are subject to way more physical objectification than men are.

I was reading something yesterday on the costs and benefits of ignoring stereotypes, from a psychological standpoint, and it made me think of the idea of fat-phobia. We obviously associate fatness with ill health; skinnier people seem healthier than fat people, almost as a rule. From an evolutionary standpoint, it seems to make some sense that people should be repulsed by obesity: these are genes that would make it difficult to survive (gauntness likely carries some of the same stigma, though the gaunt are able to broadcast healthiness in ways that the obese cannot).

Of course, there are countless exceptions to this idea, and after all, it's just a heuristic. We know relatively little about the underlying causes of obesity; genes doubtlessly play a large role, and the idea that heavier people are lazier or less fit is, to any reasonable person, a flawed one. Still, there is a positive correlation between caloric intake and weight, and also one between exercise levels and weight.

What are your thoughts on this area? Are we right to be biased against fat people? Are fat people to blame for being fat, or do they largely have no control over it? Should we be ashamed of ourselves, en masse, for stigmatizing something that is largely out of peoples' control? Is society to blame?

What is the cause of rising levels of obesity? Improved nutrition? Sedentary lifestyles? Fewer evolutionary pressures? All of the above?

No.


Yes


Yes


Yes


All of the above

Yea honestly... I think alot of this has to do with victim consciousness and American's having a really hard time taking responsibility for their own lives. I live in Colorado now and people here are pretty damn fit... there are healthy food options... and people lead an active life. I KNOW its way different in other states... but ultimately even if there are lots of outside reasons leading people to being obese... they need to bootstrap their asses... fight off the weakness and laziness... and simply get their health together.

Maybe we are sorta fat phobic... but I mean.. people getting dangerously sick due to their lifestyle choices are sorta strange to begin with. Then again.. I can see a situation where a parent feeds their kid to satiate them endlessly... having their kid being very fat before they even hit an age where they are making decisions... at which point becoming healthy is not just a healthy choice but a heavy salvage mission fighting against ingrained habits. So... its complicated. Fat people need to get skinny tho... thats for sure.

I tend to look at lazy/slobby behavior negatively and being fat is kind of the ___________ of that behavior. However, I realize that there are more causes to being fat and so I do my best not to assign or typecast that behavior to every person. I have just as much experience with fat people who arent lazy/slobby so my lack of fat-bigotry is sincere. I know some baller fat people that handle business everywhere in there lives but just hate exercise or love red meat or whatever and i respect them. Also i'm not a fascist about lazy people... i'm lazy in some areas of my life. Its jsut a degree of laziness or an exuding lack of concern for health; and the lifestyle that goes with that lack-of-concern is sort of grotesque to me.

So as with most things. The phobia comes from a generalization, which is (or isnt?) accurate (i.e. 60% of the fat people you run into are lazy slobs that much up everything they're involved with). But it is exactly that: a generalization. If youre going to dislike something, i think you should focus on a behavior instead of an imprecise (and so unfair) indicator with which to identify subjects of your bigotry (cuz fuck any bigotry).

p.s. this whole time by fat people, i have in mind someone pretty obese. Not a chubby or generally overweight person.

Any flaw in a person can be subject to runaway cycles, so even the most careless seeming obese person deserves the benefit of the doubt/empathy. Whether it be a genetic, or emotional trigger, there are some things we're not capable of dealing with on our own, or immediately.

And as Rass said, I'm assuming the discussion is about obesity, because there are plenty of 'fatter' people that are healthier/more functional than 'skinnier' people. And you can replace "fat" with any other characteristic in this discussion, a flaw is a flaw, and we all have plenty, some under control, some running away from us.

I really don't think it's possible to judge another person and be absolutely certain that your modes would fit in their shoes and be more successful.

I think there is a problem with society as a whole being lazy-enabling/inducing. And socializing in general is now catered to the individual, and if you don't want to deal with your problem, you can find a social group to enable you, and you can avoid people who challenge your weaknesses.

Healthy communities make healthy people, and unhealthy people make easy prey, so I think the shape of our communities has bred individualistic, unhealthy people, because as a result, they are more dependent/easier to market to.

So I think communities should be less judgmental, but at the same time, more demanding/challenging and supportive.

Humans discovered the most efficient way of raising cattle was by keeping them in confined pens and feeding them as much corn and soy as they can eat.

Humans now live mainly in cubicles and on couches and eat as much corn (high fructose corn syrup, dextrose, maltodextrin, mono- and di-glycerides, MSG, etc) and soy as we can stuff in our mouths.

You do the math. (half )

Me? Fatophobic? How dare you, sir. I have nothing against fat people. What you don't understand is that there are fat people and there are porkers. I have nothing against fat people, but porkers are always fucking shit up, like "hey, you gonna eat that?". It's not fat people I have a problem with, it's porkers.

Whenever I see an exceptionally rotund parent walking around with their child who also happens to be exceptionally rotund, it tends to piss me off. I know that in some cases it can be a largely genetic condition and that people can be more prone to be overweight...that sucks. But I have to/tend to think that the parent has the opportunity to do something about their condition to combat the child's obesity. Ie: make the child eat a healthier diet, exercise, etc...

I look at obesity in some cases as an addiction just like any other. I've gone through drug addiction, and food addiction can get a hold of you just like anything else. You crave it...it makes you feel good and satisfies urges when you eat...it can be something that you want to quit but find that you just can't. I empathize with people caught up in that. I really do. But just like any other unhealthy addiction, it's non-sustainable. A person who eats cheese and burgers and shit loaded with saturated fat and bad ju-ju is gonna kick the bucket eventually, most likely from some heart attack, high blood pressure, killer cholesterol having sort of deal. Shit heart disease and cancer and the 1 and 2 causes of death in males (says a quick google search on the topic) and those things are totally linked to a shitty diet.

Anywho...I guess that's what I think of a 'fat-phobia"...Sucks. Blah blah.

i got a gut. not huge but i don't like it...

when i was growing up, my parents invited their highschool friend into our house for a period of about a year, she was obese (400+pnds) anyway she was down on her luck so my parents wanted to help her out. she was a cool lady, very funny as well as a talented singer and musician(guitar)...i would say her only downfall was that she smelled really bad. idk if she had trouble reaching or what, but it was disgusting...i guess now like 15 years later she has slimmed down and is married and whatnot...weird the way things turn around.

I think I may have a subconscious issue with morbidly obese people. I don't think it's right, and it's certainly none of my business. But deep down there's something there.

I share that. I would suspect that a lot of people share that.

What is your reaction though -- is it disgust, or curiosity, or pity, or a mix of these things? I think a lot of people have a visceral, deep-seated reaction to hugely obese people, but society probably conditions exactly what form that reaction takes (i.e. gawking, ridiculing, scorning, etc.)

My gut reaction is mostly one of contempt. My dad's mother always vocally ridiculed very fat people, and my father inherited that. It definitely influenced me, though I'm better at not vocalizing those feelings -- and probably at curbing them in general -- than he is.

Maybe disgust with a dash of pity, and a sprinkle of relief that I'm not like them.

that's the second time i've run across fat emo spiderman today, after having never seen it in my life. either he's becoming a meme or stalking me.

in any case, they (the morbidly obese) only disgust me when i find them wheeling through the grocery store taking up the entire aisle with their motorized shopping cart so they can stock up on chips and fried chicken and soda.
c'mon man

c'mon.